Interview with Geshe Sherab Thabkay on 12/1/2000.

Geshe Jampa Khedrup translated.

Please tell us about your early life in Tibet: Where you were born and about your parents and family:

I was born in 1927 in Tsang Province, in the district of Gyantse Kaga, in the countryside near the city of Gyantse. My parents were farmers and herders. They had 9 children, 5 boys and 4 girls. Of my brothers and sisters, only one is still alive, a sister who is living in Shigatse,Tibet. I was the only one in my family to leave Tibet.

I was 10 when I went to the monastery. Before that I took care of the yak and dri that my parents owned. I didn’t go to school. Of my siblings 2 sisters became nuns and one brother became a monk.

I enjoyed my life on the farm, especially herding the animals with my brother. My family had about 60 yak and dri, 200 sheep, and goats, horses and other animals. I herded the yak and dri. My brother herded the sheep.


What was the name of the first monastery you went to and what did you study there?

The first monastery I went to was Gyantse Pel Kor Cho De. My one brother who became a monk also went to this monastery. I studied there from the age of 10 until I was 26.

We memorized many texts, pujas and other prayers, primarily for chanting purposes. There was only a little bit of debate there. We studied some of the basic texts: Du Dra, Tag Rig, Lo Rig, Sa Lam, Tun Tun Chu. But mostly we did memorization.

The monastery did not have a common kitchen. Each person had to obtain and prepare his own food. My parents sent me food. Also, one of my uncles who was a monk at the monastery helped support me with food and in other ways. This uncle was also my teacher.

There were about 1,500 monks at Gyantse Pel Kor Cho De. The younger monks went to school to learn reading, writing and other basics. The older monks, starting around 16 years old, memorized texts, did chanting and some debate.


Please tell us about going to Sera Je Monastery and what the conditions were like.

With my Mother’s encouragement, I myself chose to go to Sera Je Monastery when I was 26 (1953). It was a 5-day walk from Gyantse to Lhasa. I travelled with another uncle, a lay person, and a group of other travelers.

Food was sometimes plentiful, and sometimes it was scarce at Sera. Again, everyone had to have his own source of support. Sometimes my family was able to send me food. When I did not have sufficient food myself, I sometimes went to eat with friends and acquaintances. There was little food other than ‘pak’, roasted barley flour mixed with tea. Even though, I was happy there. And I never got sick. I only got sick after going to India.


How did Sera Je differ from Gyantse Pel Kor Cho De?

At Sera, most of the time was spent studying philosophy and debating. At Gyantse Pel Kor Cho De, only occasionally were there philosophy classes and debate. More of the time was spent chanting and doing prayers. Groups of monks would go to villager homes to do prayers for families. This was the main work of the monks at that monastery. But Sera was debate and study, study, study.

With all the disruptions, I did not get my lharampa geshe degree until 1985 in India. That was in Bodhgaya, during the annual Monlam Chenmo Festival , when monks from the Ganden, Drepung, Sera, and other smaller monasteries gathered together. His Holiness had asked that the monks being tested that year for the geshe degree do their examination debate at this festival.

[Geshe Jampa Khedup clarified that Geshe Thabkay did teach before getting his geshe degree. Of course, Jampa Khedup was his student. But also, others monks would come and ask Geshe Thabkay for teachings on certain subjects they wanted to study.]


Who were your teachers at Sera Je in Tibet?

Sera Je Khensur, Geshe Lhundrup Thabkay, was one of my main teachers. He died a few years ago in Lhasa. I also studied with Geshe Ngawang Gendun, the predecessor of Yangsti Rinpoche. Geshe Lhundrup Thabkay and Geshe Ngawang Gendun were also Geshe Sopa’s teachers. Other teachers I studied with in Lhasa were Geshe Ngawang Rigsel, Geshe Sopa (our abbot here at Deer Park), Geshe Ngawang Jigme, and Geshe Lhundrup Tengye, who died while we were at Buxador.


Please tell us about your leaving Ti bet.
Have you seen the picture of Geshe Sopa, Khamlung Rinpoche,
you and others taken when you first crossed from Tibet into India?

Yes, I’ve seen the picture. It was taken at the border of the state of Assam, in eastern India. The picture was taken just after we arrived. I had never seen a camera before. It was a foreigner who took the picture.

Many monks were leaving Lhasa around the time I left. There was a lot of fighting going on. The Chinese were shelling the city and the monasteries. Originally, we didn’t have plans to go to India. We left the monastery and the region to escape the area of conflict. But when we eventually found ourselves relatively close to the Indian border, we decided to head there to leave the country.

Actually, the first place I went to from Lhasa was Penbo, where Khamlung Rinpoche’s retreat house is. Geshe Sopa and Khamlung Rinpoche had gone to the retreat house before I did. After meeting there, we all left together. There was no ground-fighting going on in Penbo at the time. The Chinese hadn’t arrived yet. But many monks and lay people were passing through looking for an escape route. Once in a while, a Chinese fighter airplane would strafe the groups of people on the ground. It took us about a month to get to the Indian border.

The first place we stayed in India was Assam. Many people died there from heat exhaustion when doing too much activity in the sun. The water was very bad. The Indian government supplied rice, flour, and other food. So there was food, but the water was so bad, it had a yellow oily film over it. We stayed there about 5 months.

After Assam, we were moved to Buxador, just south of Bhutan, where we live for 10 years. Many monks died at Buxa from tuberculosis. I almost died while at Buxa. I had an intestinal illness for 3 years. At one point I was able to go to Bhutan for a few months, where I recovered some from the illness.

Then in 1970 we were all moved to Bylakuppe, Karnataka , in southern India. The first few years at Bylakuppe we had to do a lot of difficult work, clearing the jungle, establishing fields for farming, and working as laborers, carrying the cement, blocks and bricks for the masons who built the buildings we were to live in. We did that for 4 years. During that time, my illness finally became completely cured. Because we had relatively good food and water after this, I actually got a little fat, and I haven’t had any other serious illnesses since.

After the monks were settled at the monastery, they selected monks who shouldn’t have to work so they could focus on their studies. I was selected as part of this group, so I didn’t have to work and had a chance to study. During that time, people living in the West were offering to support monks at that time. I was fortunate to get sponsored by a Tibetan family living in Switzerland. This sponsorship made it so I didn’t have to work all the time. Of course I had to do my turn in the kitchen rotation and at other tasks, but I didn’t have to spend a large part of my time working. Many other monks had to spend more time on the administration of the monastery. I was able to concentrate on my studies.


Did you have teachers at the relocated Sera Je and did you continue your work towards your geshe degree?

In India I studied with Khensur Lobsang Wangchuk from Tiu Khamtsen. He was a former abbot of Sera Je. He passed away many years ago. I also studied with Khensur Lobsang Tsering, who visited here recently. I continued with and completed the entire course of study of the 5 main texts until I finished my geshe. I also did the Gelug Board exams that are now required for a certificate. It takes another 7 years after the regular course of study. I did my geshe exam in 1985 in front of His Holiness and all the senior monks at Bodhgaya at the Monlam Chenmo. Even after getting your Geshe Lharampa in from of all the monks, you come back to the monastery to work to get the certificate. It’s a little bit complicated. Just in the last couple of years they changed it so that you take your Gelug Board exams and get your certificate before taking the geshe exam in from of all the monks.


Did you go to Gyume Tantric College? You know the prayers and rituals so well.

I didn’t go to either of the tantric colleges. I learned that at Gyantse Pel Kor Cho De. I didn’t go to Gyume because I was old and would have had a difficult time studying at the tantric college. I thought I should retire from studies, though I still taught young monks at the Sera Je school. I taught them Du Ra and sometimes the Buddha’s life story. It was to give them a background to help them when they begin the higher philosophical studies.


When Geshe Sopa asked you to come to the United States, did you want to come?

Because Geshe Sopa is my teacher, I thought I should. He said I could stay for just a year or 2 and then go back to Sera Monastery in India. Other Sera monks teaching in the west asked me a few times previously if I wanted to leave Sera to teach in the west. But because I didn’t have a strong interest in going abroad, I didn’t go. But then Geshe Sopa-la asked me. I thought I’d go for one or 2 years and then come back. Now I’m at Deer Park for 8 years. I came in October of 1992.

I went back to India once. I’d like to go back again some time. When I came back that first time I brought Geshe Jampa Khedup with me.


How long did Geshe Jampa Khedup study with you?

He came to the monastery when he was 10 in 1976. He’s now 33. He lived in my room at Sera until I left for the U.S. in 1992, along with another young monk. There were 3 of us in the same room for about 16 years. The room was a little bigger than my bedroom here.


When was the last time you saw your own parents?

I never saw them again after going to Lhasa. I saw other relatives, 2 of my sisters and others. I never went back to Gyantse. During vacations from our main studies I took the opportunity to memorize the root texts that we had to study during our course of study. In 1959 I was planning to go visit my family, but then we had all the turmoil, fighting and death and we had to leave the country. Even at that point, my father was already dead. Now I have just one sister still alive in Tibet, very old and living in Shigatse.


Can you say something about your life in general and about your relative good fortune?

Any good fortune I have experienced was from merit from previous lives. But my life has been long and has had many unexpected twists and turns. Leaving my family and their farm to go to the monastery, going to Lhasa and never seeing my parents again, being forced to leave Sera Je, Lhasa and Tibet, and moving around to the various resettlement camps in India, and then coming to the United States.

Leaving Tibet was the most difficult and sad time. I was leaving my family, my monastery, my teachers and my country. Some of us cried as we made our way to India. Our only hope was knowing that His Holiness was also on his way to India.

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